Hi, my name is Georgiana. I am the CEO and founder of Beaglecat, and soon you will be listening to Employer Branding: The Inside Podcast. In this podcast, I regularly talk to employer branding managers and acquisition managers, and human resources managers in tech companies in Germany, Romania, and the US. For more content on employer branding-related themes, go to employerbranding.tech or beaglecat.com. Stay tuned!
Overview
Episode 3 of #Employer Branding: The Inside Podcast is live, everyone!
This time around, we had the pleasure of speaking with Reiner Kriegler, Founder and CEO at DEBA – Deutsche Employer Branding Akademie. And it was such an insightful discussion about what employer branding is and want isn’t. We also talked about fostering #transparency by transforming career sites into active employee-candidate hubs and what it means to search for “truffles” instead of ” mushrooms” when building your employer brand.
What you’ll learn by listening
- How the fusion of HR and brand strategy led to the making of employer branding
- How leaders and HR professionals perceive employer branding
- Myth debunked: Employer branding is NOT marketing
- How good employer branding is identity-based
- How ‘truffles’, not ‘mushrooms’ make up a genuine employer brand
- Foster transparency by transforming career sites into active employee-candidate hubs
- The long, hard way is the only way to build a strong employer brand
- The effectiveness of honesty, the key to employee retention
About DEBA – Deutsche Employer Branding Akademie
DEBA advises and accompanies companies on their way to becoming measurably successful employer brands with the same enthusiasm with which it trains people who are interested in employer branding. The DEBA mission: to strengthen the future fit of organisations. We make employers more successful by identifying the core of their identity, making it tangible both internally and externally, and enabling them to align themselves with it in order to secure their future.
Podcast link – Enjoy listening on Spotify!
Podcast transcription – Employer Branding T.I.P S07Ep.03
Georgiana:
Hi, everyone, Georgiana here with a new episode of Employer Branding: The Inside Podcast. This is the 7th season currently, and I’m very proud to say that we’ve come a long way. And I’m even more proud to say that we are talking with German specialists in the season. There are people who have been working in employer branding or talent acquisition or simply in HR for a very long time here in Germany. And today, I’m talking actually to someone that I admire a lot and that I have been following for a very long time. His name is Reiner Kriegler. And he is I can say for sure royalty when it comes to employer branding, not just in Germany, but in general. Reiner, I’m super, super excited to be talking to you today. Thank you once again for accepting my invitation. And welcome to this talk.
Reiner Kriegler:
Thanks a lot, Georgiana. And you make me blush red. I just did my part for increasing the quality of employer branding. And yeah, hi, everybody out there. I hope you enjoy this talk.
Georgiana:
Reiner, you have been working in employer branding, for a very long time ever since people had no idea what it is about, what this discipline involves, and what it can do for a business. You have established the Deutsche Employer Branding Academy, which is an institution in itself. I’m proud to call it this way. And for sure, you can share more about how you started with employer branding and what has kept you in this industry for so long.
Reiner Kriegler:
Yeah. Well, it’s started already in 1999 actually. My first company was a classical advertising agency. And that’s the first contact with this buzzword Employer Branding. Actually, we made HR marketing, job ads, whatever for our clients, but I got a little bit fascinated. And then, 2001 was the next spark I received. I had really the pleasure and the chance to develop the international employer branding strategy for, I think, Europe’s biggest travel provider. And I was really set on fire because I realized the depths of the topic and I said, Wow, one day, I want to specialize completely professionally in employer branding. And maybe good to know. I lost the advertising agency already because of the economy crash in 2000-2001, the terror attacks in New York. Some people might remember so I lost this company, but I thought very American. If you fall down, if you get a bloody nose, that’s not a problem; not standing up, that’s the problem. I think I had an American Heart those times, fortunately.
And I said, now I want to do much more than just advertising. Georgiana, don’t tell it to anybody. I hate advertising. I hate product branding. But I restarted as a brand strategist. So I founded one of Germany’s first genuine brand strategy consultancies and we specialize completely on corporate branding. And as we know, employer branding is a part of corporate branding. And this is when this big project hit me and I was fascinated. But still, I experienced and I consulted in employment branding just with one open eye, not with to open eyes. What do I mean? I just looked at everything out of my branding strategy, maybe a little bit from a communication perspective. And this is not enough. This is not just half of the truth. It’s not a bit of the truth, you need the second part. And I just told you, I was waiting for the moment to say ‘when can I make an employer branding my one and only professional home and this chance came in 2006. The year we found DEBA- Deutsche Employer Branding Akademie.
What opened my second eye was a crash into an alien person, let’s call her, an HR person. I was a branding guy, and she was HR. She washed the HR waters, as we say here in Germany. And she was super interested in employer branding as well. You know, 2006 was the year, where at least in Germany, this buzzword came up and conquered everything. Everybody used it, it was on the business cards, you had maybe in Germany, head of University Marketing. And suddenly you had in your business card head of employer branding Western Europe or something like that. So the poor HR people had to become overnight marketing specialists, oh, my God. And then, they had to become branding specialists. And nobody realized that marketing is a completely different thing than branding. But back to the story for closing the circle.
My co-founder, looked out of the HR perspective and me from the branding perspective. And we had to really, without kidding, nine months, big debates, even fights, and we have been super exhausted to which perspective is more important and blah, blah? And of course, this was a stupid question. But when we made this, all these argues, and debates, we develop so much for them. And people really loved it very fast. We have been maybe the first who looked through a combined or who combined to fusion, who blend the two, the perspective of HR and branding, especially brand strategy. And the spark that brought up this company, so it’s a wow, we have so many new ideas. Let’s share this and we did we share our stuff, open source, lots of people read it. So the people thought in 2006, that DEBA in Berlin was probably they are 30-40 people. But we started with two and then we became four. So we were very small at the time.
Georgiana:
And I’m looking at the state of the market. Now we’re in 2023. So very long time since you started, and even a long time since I started, much later than you, but still. And I’m wondering, what is the perception of leadership and of HR people when it comes to employer branding? Because I fear that the situation has not improved as much as it should have.
Reiner Kriegler:
Here is an invitation to change your perspective, Georgiana. But I really feel a bit critical maybe, and a little bit of frustration because you’re right. Most companies didn’t realize how to do employer branding in the right way for unfolding its full potential. But more and more, and the two years of Corona forced it, pushed it, speeded it up, and more and more employer branding gets seen by the companies and is used by the companies in a very good direction. We are both an Academy and strategy consultancy, mainly. And more and more C-level people are joining the projects at the very beginning. Actually, in my opinion, you can’t start a good employer branding process in your company when you don’t have commitment of C-level.
Unfortunately, HR and you asked for HR perspective as well, HR, in most of the companies still think it’s about marketing, like employer marketing. And it’s not. Then please call it HR marketing, personnel marketing, however you call it in English. Yeah. In German, you would say personal marketing. But don’t call it branding. You don’t need to do Employer Branding. But if you do just external campaigns, and you want to improve your quick win KPI, website traffic, whatever, then you are doing just marketing. And marketing is just one field of action of branding. This is the same in corporate branding. The more companies align with the deeper perspective in employer branding, and this is something I’m really enthusiastic about. And they understand that it’s about identity building, good employer brand is identity based. But most employer brand people do out are marketing oriented.
And that’s too short as you will never have sustainable long wins. If people always look for so called quick wins, they will harvest long losses, they lose time. And here’s the good news for you. More and more companies understand this. And they’re starting to look deep into their own organizational culture. It’s so fulfilling to dig deep into it. It’s like a dive into the ground of a company, of the spirit, of the atmosphere, of the way people are collaborating. If remote or not, doesn’t matter so much actually. And whenever well, we just do such projects of companies say can you do a nice HR marketing campaign? We say, oh, no, but maybe go to this or that provider? It’s so fulfilling Georgianna, and if you want, I invite you to join one. To go deep into it, and look for the truffles, which are hidden under the Earth, You don’t see them. It takes intuition. We are sensing. For lots of people it sounds esoteric. But it’s a qualitative process, like truffles not mushrooms which are are visible, superficial. Look at EVP statements of so many companies out there, especially the big ones. Come on, what you could write down after half an hour talk with the HR department?
Georgiana:
No, I completely understand. And believe me, I am exactly on the same page as you. Because whenever we need to work on the EVP for a tech company, or we do a simple recruitment marketing campaign, we always have the survey, we always have a focus group, and we talk to all the employees via the survey anonymously. And we discover truffles as you said. And then we have focus groups with the leadership and we try to understand if and how they overlap. However, this is the perspective that I gather while working as a strategist from the outside.
As an employee working in employer branding, it hasn’t happened a lot to me. I can admit it, but I’ve spoken to people who are employees in employer branding in Germany for a very long time. The perspective is quite depressing because you are this animal at the intersection of the marketing department, and the HR department, and it’s not really clear to the leadership and to you, what is expected of you and what you need to do to justify your budget and your role. You know, this is where my frustration comes from. So maybe yeah, maybe in the end, I’ll just stay in the entrepreneurial strategic position. This might be more rewarding than employer branding for now.
Reiner Kriegler:
I totally feel you and what you describe, in my opinion, are companies that have still a very low maturity level in Employer Branding. We’re far away from the high maturity level where you’re synchronizing your employer identity, maybe let’s not speak about branding. It’s about your identity as an employer, syncing this with purpose, with other stuff you have, and you are guiding principles, and company values. It’s about identity, it’s about culture. It’s about values and at the end, and nowadays, because we are in a very dynamic world, it’s about change. We have no employer branding project that has not a bit or a big bit of transformation, transformative perspective, and a good employer brand, you can build it in a way that it’s supporting their transformational process.
Georgiana:
Right. You are right. Speaking very concretely, when it comes to tactics for employer branding, I found on your website or maybe on LinkedIn, a quote from you, in which you’re saying that we should get rid of career sites and personnel marketing and I found this opinion to be very intriguing. I think I understand where you stand from where you stand and where the opinion comes from. But I feel that it’s not doable when you try to recruit hundreds of people. So why what made you make such a statement? And how can you know, justify it?
Reiner Kriegler:
I think everybody who listens to us now, we are curating their employer branding 24 sessions, very good speakers. Just join us if you have time and the mood there makes a statement and of course, companies always will need a platform that’s nowadays called maybe a ‘career site’. And I think we can get rid of all the career sites that are in the way, most of them are in the moment. You know, nobody needs it. What is it it’s more commercial post-award with noncredible testimonials of people and the career site I don’t like this name at all? Nowadays career sites have in my opinion to transform into a hub, a real platform where people can meet employees, meet candidates. So you should, and this is a great objective for HR. Organize talks, but don’t be part of the talk. Bring them together and tear down this artificial wall as the separation between internal people, and external people.
Activate your teams but not with these super boring brand testimonials, ambassador stuff. Oh my god, please you can chase me with this. Yeah, I said as well testimonials are dead on the stage there. And then a colleague of mine showed a campaign, a greatest campaign but not the typical way where employees in one team spoke about each other. That’s so much hard and I nearly have tears just to see this. And HR should just offer the dialogue and then step away. Of course, you can make your job interviews and whatever it takes because there are policies. But if a candidate wants to know really what’s going on, in let’s call it the coding team blue down in Munich whatever. Then let’s bring her together with people from Team Blue. There’s Calendly for example. In sales it’s super common. I received an email from Joe, and I can book 30 minutes on my calendar. Offer that.
So I believe career sites should get a completely new purpose. They should be enhancing the quality of the meeting. And I think this is, in general, is a big door opener for good employer branding. Forget all this marketing stuff. Of course, you will always need a certain buzz of marketing. But to be honest, in five years, well, anybody of the new generation will still know the term job ad. So why don’t you have the complete job market in your so-called, formerly known career site with all the bullet points, but invest your money better in Google ads, whatever to bring the traffic there. Invite them to to meet the people behind. There’s the movie Avatar. And the first movie, ‘I see you ‘ was a famous quote. I see you and it doesn’t mean ‘Oh, Georgiana, I see oh, here, in the camera, I see how you look.’ No, I see through your eyes and your soul. This is what these aliens meant. I see you. And why can’t a career site be this kind of stuff? Let’s be seeable, behind the scenes by candidates. Why do you need this marketing stuff in this amount? We live in a time when power and control shift to the other side. Nobody wants to be recruited. No, I want to have high quality and countering talks with people on the other side. But there shouldn’t be another side anymore. So you’re totally right, it is a little bit of a provocative quote.
Georgiana:
It’s funny in a way, because I’m reading this book now on sales. It’s called “High probability selling”, which somehow overturns the entire process and the entire practice of sales, the way we’ve known it. And I feel like you’re telling me means to forget everything we know about HR, about marketing, about marketing for HR, and just try to put ourselves in the shoes of the candidate and to try to show the company the way it really is. And in the end, it’s not complicated. It’s just different from everything that we know how to do, from everything we’ve learned. And it’s funny, in a way for me, and I’ll make this quick mention. I speak to leaders sometimes about employer branding, and I told them, maybe you should try to look into it and see what kind of benefits it can get you. But we’re already doing Employer Branding. We have a social media marketing manager. Great. You haven’t understood anything. And unfortunately, there are many, many cases where it’s either the marketing or the HR.
Reiner Kriegler:
In my experience, I understand that if you maybe have a quite okay employee value proposition, maybe hard way to get there. And then I understand that it’s much easier to look now to the external activation; campaigning, whatever. If you have a budget, you get a good agency, they make nice pictures, good creative ideas, a good channel strategy, all important. But it’s not so easy to look now, to the internal activation. Because what is the most powerful field of action of employer branding? It’s internal. It’s leadership especially.
In 2007, we defined a model for internal and for external areas of activation for employer branding. Leadership is one of four internal and it’s the most powerful. I’m really thrilled that more and more we meet clients in our consultancy, who say, hey Reiner, thanks for the EVP. We have maybe 70% of our people are in commitment, are supporting. Whoa, that’s super great. And can we make some refresh content of the EVP content? Can we bring it somehow into the external? Appearance, career site job ads, whatever? Can we focus first on leadership principles now? Can you check please, if they are contradicting maybe our employer promise, our EVP. Or which guiding principles that we’re missing could help us to empower the EVP, the becoming of an employer brand even more. And here we see a higher level people with a high maturity level. And this is happening more and more. And even better, Georgiana, when so many others still look just into campaigning and marketing and think it’s employer branding, because for the clients we serve, it’s a big advantage. Because yeah, they go a little bit the harder way. Yeah, but we go for long term wins and not short term wins. And so, one year later, they will conquer everything.
Georgiana:
You are 100% right. And that reminds me of a certain company. At some point in the past, I think two years ago, they received some money from the government to do some employer branding. So they didn’t really understand the need, but the money was there. So they said, Okay, let’s spend it. Let’s see what happens. And I didn’t work on a project. But a friend of mine did. And he told me that what happened was that they started with a survey, and they started to look at the company, they spoke a lot to the leadership. And they discovered that the CEO, and basically everyone in the leadership team, were so bad to their employees. And people were so unhappy, that they should have done a lot of restructuring work to be able to do to inflict a little bit of change. So they dropped it in because there was not enough time, not enough money. But yeah, what I’m trying to say is that sometimes it requires much more than just these simple things. And in some companies is just not possible or the effort would be too big. Or you know, if the leader doesn’t consider himself to be so bad, he’s never gonna accept it.
Reiner Kriegler:
I know such stories as well. And you just reminded of on a company. It was in South Germany, 3000 people. And they said, ‘Let’s start the project on corporate, brand values’. I said okay, let’s start with corporate branding. Even better, I come from corporate branding. And then employee value proposition, candidate experience, and all this stuff. So okay, we started and we always start with finding the truffles. We did a cultural analysis, but not a common one very specifically searching for truffles that we need to position a company as an employer.
And I, as an agency or marketing or branding guy, would never conduct such focus will be work just as focus groups. We have very experienced facilitators, organizational psychologists who do this, it’s like a therapy session. And super interesting and we dive deep into this organization culture. And then Elizabeth, our psychologist came back and said, ‘Oh my God, it’s toxic. It’s really toxic’. They are not greeting each other in the big parking lot. If you go with your car and bump by accident in a colleague’s car, you just run away with your car. You don’t leave a note with your number. It’s amazing. Yeah. And so what do we do now? Yeah, and so we invited them and we said look, you cannot harvest anything yet.
First, you need the field, and then you can plow through. And then, three years later, you can start to put seats in it and then something like a company culture in a way that employer branding can grow. And they really understood it. It was amazing, a big compliment to the leadership team there. The big boss said, Yes, I got it. It’s right. We will make no big promises, marketing campaigns. No, we will we work hard on our culture. And then, the upsell was leadership culture or conflict management programs, or whatever. It’s the long way, the hard way, but it’s the only way. And now they are. I think it’s now really three years ago. And some weeks ago, I spoke with them again. They are ready now know. They still have some problems. But the toxic cloud is just maybe in some departments, some teams, it’s not in general anymore. Now we can grow an employer brand. And I admire these people, they face that challenge. They have been true to themselves. They didn’t lie in their pocket and said, Let’s cover it up with some marketing campaigns.
Georgiana:
That’s a true success story. And I think it’s very rare because most people would have said, Oh, well, the company’s going. Business is okay, we are all making money. It’s profitable. Let’s just leave it as it is. Usually, that’s how it happens.
Reiner Kriegler:
Yeah, unfortunately.
Georgiana:
Great. Well, we have about 10-15 minutes left, and still a lot of topics to cover. So I’m thinking which question to go with next. What’s your number one tip on employee retention?
Reiner Kriegler:
We have a mantra at DEBA. We call it, it’s like the effectiveness of honesty. I think this is a good tip for my whole life. And if you want to keep people honest about what the future brings, be honest in what you can offer to them. Take them serious. And for me, it always comes down to identity and identification. What is an employer brand when you build one? It’s another brick stone, another piece of the puzzle of your offer of identification to people; of your own people or people who might become your people. So if you’re honest about yourself, and say, This Is Us, with all the pros and cons, strengths and weaknesses, beautiful sides, ugly sides. I mean, it’s like in private life.
Yeah. If you’re, if you’re dating a person, if you just show your good sides, maybe you have a quick win; but nothing sustainable will be established. And yeah, be brutally honest and invest into identification, strengthen your own identity, accept, embrace, even the not-so-cool parts of your identity, of your culture. It’s part of your . I need to learn to embrace my not-so-nice sides, and I have them as everybody. Am I honest enough to myself, and I think organizations have to do the same. And that’s the best you can do. Maybe as the audience is disappointed that is not a very practical thing, make your career so it’s all in right now. But I think it’s the the deeper layer, the under the underlying real thing that helps.
Georgiana:
Yes and I’m really happy that you touched on identity-based employer branding as well because I’m a complete believer in the power of showing your identity the way it is; a power of honesty in real life like you said, not only when it comes to corporate identity and corporate employer brand. I completely agree. Reiner, you’ve worked with a lot of companies I’m curious what is your favorite project so far and why? A project where you feel maybe you’ve contributed a lot or you’ve started with very little and you’ve gotten very far.
Reiner Kriegler:
May choose a favorite project in history or current?
Georgiana:
I would say your favorite project ever, if possible.
Reiner Kriegler:
Okay. There are several but spontaneously, let me say Mars. You know, Mars formerly known as master foods; Whatever little children or pets want to put into the basket in front of the cashiers is from Mars all these chocolate bars. You know Mars itself; you know Twix, you know Bounty; you know, Snickers, M&Ms. And we have all the pet foodstuff. Wiskas, Pedigree, Royal Canin.
So the German people asked us to develop the employee value proposition, okay. And they have a super special culture, it was very thankful and not so difficult to find the special aspects of their culture; to develop and profiling and differentiating employer value propositions. It’s pure freedom. Y’all remember this movie Braveheart where Mel Gibson, and before he died was his last breaths. He screamed ‘freedom’. This is the Mars culture; and my co founder me went in there and she was like, oh my god, I can never work at terrible. And I haven’t. Yeah, because it’s all free. And to pay a high price for this freedom.
It goes too far to describe all this. But onboarding is a white sheet of paper. Oh, where am I calling? asked around. Where do I sit? I take this is empty. Okay. Okay. You prepare to I’m product manager because I’m sure you prepared my first your first mission on my first day. I Yeah. Right. You can you know what you can do? You know, just start. They call it a white piece of paper. And you know, I know, you all guys know lots of people who hate it, who hate culture. So it’s a perfect cultural fit. cultural fit is the most important thing. Maybe this is another tip. Maybe even this number two tip. Make a clear culture, make cultural fit-based recruiting. Don’t let anybody enter your organization who doesn’t have 70% culture match.
Otherwise you are imploding everything. But back to Mars, what I really admired in these people was a super cool employee value proposition. And they said ‘Guys, we know somehow that 30% of our current employees have not the readiness and toughness to achieve results the future’. You know, fast moving consumer goods? It gets even faster. Don’t tell anybody, but next year we buy Wrigley’s; 60,000 people. Hmm, yes, they did it. Yeah. And so lots of things are changing and they said ‘Guys, build an employer brand with us that is a stone of challenge for our people. We want edgy.’
But people can hurt by edges, they can bump into it. And this is what we want, strong employer brands allow you to feel do I match with this? Do I want this, will I feel well? Can I work fulfilled there or not? And then don’t go there. Yeah, we want to scare people away. Because culture misfits are nowadays future misfits. And with Mars, they said, ‘Build something that 30% feel as a pain in the ass. It’s a needle stick’. But for people who are a future fit Georgiana, the same needle is an acupuncture needle. And some of them who said, thank you that we know it. Now we know where you want to go to develop the culture. This is nothing for me. And thank you for telling me, employer! Now let’s speak. I leave in six months, nine months, I recruit my successor person.
And I’m so thankful with you that you told me because now as explanation right, since six or nine months I felt not so comfortable anymore here like the years before. What a great blessing. This is the most human thing you can do. And then these people don’t blame you in Kununu or Glassdoor anymore. No. And they know exactly what to tell. Then you candidates for their own job. Oh, you’re like me, then don’t hire here. Don’t go here, because this is why I’m thankful that I can live in peace. And then suddenly this German EVP is a European people’s freedom, freedom all came in from the product team. Oh, let’s make this Europe-wide. Okay. And your leadership meeting, the family Mars, the family on business is meeting them every year.
They said, wow, that’s strong. Can’t we have this as a global employee value proposition? I thought it’s a joke. No way, you know, but they did. And then they make an internal validation. They spoke in focus groups in Australia, in Morocco, wherever they are. And so I said, Well, we had enough commitment for this because Frank Mars, the founder, he managed a great thing. There are five principles of Frank Mars, and what we found in the culture, it’s really homogeneous worldwide there. So they really could use it. So it became a global EVP. And it’s really a cool case.
Georgiana:
It is, it is. And it all comes back like that to be honest about who you are. Yeah, we cannot state this enough.
Reiner Kriegler:
Do you want a current project as well?
Georgiana:
Sure.
Reiner Kriegler:
Do you know Decathlon? Most people know Decathlon, and they had a very bad experience two years ago with some agency. It was this EVP statement that you can write down after speaking with an HR person. And they said, ‘No, we need to restart again’. And it was very strong what we found. They are very just euphoric, just don’t tell it around. We felt nearly sexual energy. It was like they have love battles with each other. Yeah, it’s a very special culture. They are totally driven. They’re passionate. And yeah, we brought the Spirit into the EVP, and then something wonderful happened. The employer brand people there did lots of stuff by themselves and implemented it in a really wonderful way. So if somebody wants to have a best practice, for internal Employer Branding, I really can recommend Decathlon now we are working with the external campaign and I cannot tell a lot about this yet. But this is to me, it’s really is a hard case. Because I see how euphoric people have been. When they read the new EVP statement, you see the reaction on their face. And it’s like, wow.
Georgiana:
Well,I will look into it in the following months, given that you’re working on it current. And Reiner just to conclude this episode, what are your predictions for this year when it comes to employer branding?
Reiner Kriegler:
Yeah, I mentioned already so much. I think recruiting and HR marketing are quite dead. Who’s out there for being recruited? The labor market, 98% of the labor market is inside a company. This is changing a lot and you need to invest more into your employees, you spoke about retention earlier. This is what I like to call the invest in identity and identification is the only vaccination of an organization in the labor market development we are facing. So baby boomers just started to go into retirement in 2019. The first dropped out what we see now, what we will see now is like a tectonic movement out of the labor market. And so just vaccinate your culture, invest in your culture and your identity. And this is the best you can do. First of all, keep people and everybody who still thinks was more have more budget and in marketing campaigns that you can stay a strong employer half the workforce you need, I think they all pay a very high price, the price might be the complete existence.
Georgiana:
I agree. And this is advice that every leader should take into account. Yes, this has been so nice, so informative. And I have to admit, I feel optimistic.
Reiner Kriegler:
That’s also my mission today.
Georgiana:
You have succeeded, I think the passion with which you are doing Employer Branding is very visible when interacting with you. It’s visible by everything you do, all the content you put out there, all the talks that you do all the time. So I’m really happy we talked and I wish you the best of luck and I hope to meet you in person soon.
Reiner Kriegler:
Yes, you’re heartily invited, plus everybody who works in employer branding. You can just enter employerbranding.org the website, where you’ll see the address. There’s always a chat, a cup of coffee; that’s a new concept. We are one community. Thanks a lot for this podcast. I feel very blessed that you found me and that I found you, and I need to forgive myself that I didn’t find you earlier. I can see that you are a very fine person and I would really like to meet you in person and go deeper into the topic of employer branding.
Georgiana:
I would like that. Thank you so much. And I look forward to talking to you again soon. Thank you. Bye-bye, everybody.
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